By: Nguyen
Here are some individual’s feedback from Reddit about my Am I Woke? – My dilemma with Unwoke Asian and their fallacious comments blog post:
From u/eatyourchildren:
That was a really great read, thanks for that. One thing I worry about going too far into the data-driven approach (something I balance at work quite a bit as a graphic designer and marketer) is that it ignores that much of these debates are as much about persuasion/PR, if not more, than about the cold hard numbers. At the end of the day, people value and remember personal lived experience over aggregate metrics, for better or worse. For example, what probably drives many to interact here is not an intellectualized understanding of outmarriage rates (though they do empirically support our shared views) but the various instances of lived personal experience of being rejected by Asian women just for being Asian, and other acts of emasculation by society.
To be totally transparent, I started doing therapy about 5 years ago. Something that I’ve learned through it is that oftentimes realizations happen the most when you get to the visceral and emotional heart of an issue rather than talking about the theory of it. With the @Kxinming character, I actually would’ve avoided a data-driven approach to dialoguing with her. I would’ve asked her if she understood why Asian men clamor for more Asian representation and why she thinks Asian men would be upset at Jenny Han’s work. I would ask why Jenny Han’s story may be problematic as a representational work of art. Oftentimes, forcing others to be empathetic is a much better solution than just presenting the counterfactual case, even if the cold hard logic is obvious and, quite frankly, satisfying to dish out.
I say all this because the goal is not to be “right”, the goal is to be persuasive. It’s what some of the women who entered the conversation were able to do, and I generally think its an approach worth discussing more on this subreddit in general.
From u/wakingbACoNasian:
Really good coverage of a wide range of topics, and I learned something new as well.
Thanks! May I ask what you learned, so I am aware of people’s knowledge gaps (thus trying to promote that topic more than preaching to the choir the things people already know)?
Sounds fair. For me:
Appeal to Pity is a new logical fallacy term that I haven’t seen. Even though, thinking back, I’ve actually come across this tactic a lot. The idea that we can continue to engage in opponents who are trying to milk sympathy from the audience, without actually looking like an ass. I usually tap out of the discussion at this point, to cut my loss and avoid looking like an aggressor picking on (usually female) debaters.
So sticking to empirical facts will help keep the conversation on track. The struggle for me is to have enough cited sources on hand. This is something that I’m looking to get better at – perhaps we should establish a repository of screenshots from journal articles and other relevant sources.
At the same time, it’s also okay to cut our losses if the other person just don’t get it. I’ve had to do that but have felt some guilt over it.
Pretty much the general idea that there are scripts and approaches to counter common arguments out there about fallacies and internalized racism. I was surprised at the amount of sources and scripts.
The list of Asian women as love interests jogged my memories. “Oh yeah, that movie had that also!”
Conclusion: As a person who likes to use and preach about data-driven evidence, I tend to be blinded by my own bias. I subconsciously nitpick my evidence to create a narrative to prove my point, which is sometimes WRONG. If someone pointed that out, it is good to acknowledge and learn from those mistakes! Avoid using misleading stats to create a narrative that benefits you! Because these stats can be easily broken down plus you would look ridiculous at the end of the conversation.
Not just stats that could be misleading, graphs which could outright manipulate the public:
Here is an example of a politician that is used misleading stats: Ted Cruz on Healthcare.
If you have any questions or concerns, please comment on this post below!
